Blood clot/stroke? 22 years old.. help needed!!

To get straight to the point, I got hooked on amphetamines and noticed scary symptoms occurring bit by bit when my addiction got completely out of hand. Clearly amphetamines are too dangerous to use recklessly, but at the time I never thought that they could cause me this continual life-threatening nightmare I am going through. So, now that my stupidity and lazy disregard for health is out of the way, I can try to explain my story.

I'm 22 years old, caucasian male, 5'10", about 140 lbs. Family has no history of early onset heart problems or defects. Prior to amphetamine addiction, I was completely healthy and never smoked, drank, or used drugs of any other kind at all--besides correct usage of prescribed antidepressants. I've been taking Paxil 30mg for 5 years now, if that is of any importance.

The only amphetamine I've used is pharmaceutical Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine, 10mg and 15mg time-release capsules.) I've been using it on and off for about 7 months now. Method of administration is oral, although I crush the spansule beads so onset is quicker and sleep is possible. Usual routine would be 20mg daily (taken at once)
for up to 10 days in a row, sometimes 30mg but almost never more.
Then I would go through a period of about 2 weeks where I did not use amphetamines whatsoever. I would say about 12-15 days out of a month
I would have had some dosage of Dexedrine.

But somewhere within the latter stages of my addiction, I started noticing scary side-effects. I would get occasional pains in the left arm and strong feelings of pressure and tingling in the left part of my neck and head. My left ear was ringing constantly, and now I can barely hear out of it. Unwilling to take heed, like a foolish addict
I continued use due to a severe psychological addiction. Eventually, in addition to those side effects which continued, my legs started to feel numb and light and very floaty. It was as if I was walking on cushioned ground at all times. Of no surprise is that I now have developed a permanently irregular heartbeat, at times HIGHLY irregular--although most often after having coffee or other mild substances.

I have just quit using amphetamines a few days ago after I was forced to either quit or become disabled for life. But I suppose terrible side effects don't go away in 2-3 days. The veins on my arms are popping out all over, and I have lost most of my feeling in the entire left side of my body. Chest pressure and shortness of breath are common. At times motor control on the left side of my body--left eye/left leg movement--is a bit more "delayed" than usual. My detection of odors and tastes is severely distorted. Sometimes I have difficulty swallowing.

The pressure I notice the most, however, is always in the left side of my neck/head. The vein going from the left part of my neck to my head feels extremely pressured, and pressing it is actually painful. It seems to lead up to a "clumpy" area at the base of my skull and then disappears into my head. I am not sure if the clump is just a muscle in my neck, or what.

Along those lines, I notice pronounced pressure and tingling on the left side of my head (pressure in the left ear especially) anytime I eat or drink something.. but MARKEDLY if I have any psychoactive substance such as caffeine or beer. It seems that now, all drugs work
"strangely".. with caffeine, it seems to barely affect me, and often works in a "time-release" stage where the onset is delayed or distorted. Usually, I'd feel a caffeine buzz immediately, but now it's choppy or extremely faint.

I am wondering if I stay off amphetamines for long enough, will this problem correct itself and will my body return to normal? Or is there signs here of permanent damage, perhaps to blood vessels in my brain?
I cannot think of any other reason why psychoactives just suddenly create intense pressure in the left side of my head, and don't work normally anymore. Is a clogged carotid artery a possible culprit?

I know I am very foolish for continuing an addiction that could kill me. Perhaps it was that false sense of power that the drug causes that permits one to think nothing bad will happen. The truth is--and this is odd--many of the aforementioned side effects have been occurring for 2 months straight in varying degrees, though some of them would decrease or vanish when I went a week or two off speed completely. I have not had an "episode" yet or gone to the hospital, nor do I wish to go to the doctor and tell him about my compulsive addiction to amphetamines.

I know this is a lot to take in--but I am not able to "self-diagnose" a condition, and perhaps telling my story here and getting feedback is the next best thing to getting professional help. Anyone have an idea of what is most likely happening to me? Any medications I could use to possibly alleviate the problem? Could Paxil perhaps have a role in this somewhere?

All feedback would be appreciated, if you want you can email me at:
I am waiting for some insight.. thanx. I won't mind people telling me to see the doctor or go to the hospital to get checked, but it won't help to say my condition is urgent and I will die if I don't get help at once. I am 22 years old, after all.

I cannot personally relate to your story as I have never once tried illegal drugs. It definately sounds as though you need some prompt medical help. You have to first be honest with a doctor if you want to be healthy. I agree with those mentioned side effects of so many different drugs in your system, it sounds to me as though you are not only confusing brain pressures that are affecting vessels in your brain but also your central nervous system which might explain your symptoms.

The issue of your heart activity changing is simple... aggrivate the smoothe muscles in the lining of your heart and the vessels that feed it and you get a bad result, which is what you are doing. You are creating spams in your heart. I once saw a patient suffer permanent damage due to cocaine use, his heart was forever damaged as a result of a spasmotic heart attack due to the drug causing cardio-vascular constriction and the guy didn't even have a blockage and he was only
31! If people knew just how serious this stuff was they'd never touch the stuff.

If people could see what some heart patients go through who have genetic cardiac conditions they would think twice before even beginning a drug habit.

I really have to try not to just tell people like you what I *really* think of you, but for now, I'll take the high road and encourage you to get to a doctor and be honest.

You are disrespecting life itself, and the giver of that life by abusing your own body and I for one see plenty of kids who do NOTHING wrong and who ONLY respect the life they've been given have it get cut short due to genetics. Just think of all the people you should/could touch in a positive way, or the work you were put on this earth to do and how you are wasting time trapped in the barbed wire of addiction.

Now get yourself out of the gutter and get busy and start being honest. Maybe you should go post on a drug addict message board.

Speed can cause severe hypertension in addition to arrythmia. The intake of alcohol can further increase blood pressure levels for susceptible persons. So your pressure in your head and your tinnitus might be symptoms of hypertension --- but only a doctor can make the right diagnosis.

You took the first admirable steps by stopping the intake of meth and

Now, please, don´t be foolish again out of a possible anxiety to consult a physician, John ! There is no problem to tell a doc about your addiction. Quite the contrary!

So-called "monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOI)" antidepressant drugs definitely have serious adverse side effects when concomitantly taken with amphetamines.

However, Paxil is not an MAOI -- and I don´t know the specific negative interactions when taken with stimulants, but it sounds plausible. Maybe Dr Chung can help out to provide proper information about the matter.

The only thing I know about Paxil is not to drink alcohol when being on this drug.

You told us about symptoms that have little to do with the "usual" withdrawal effects on the body (such as lassitude, lethargy, depression, hypersommnia among others). Your current condition appears serious to me, and as such, it warrants an immediate visit to a doctor´s office (or even an ER) if you like it or not. You need a complete physical and cardiac evaluation plus follow-up professional counseling to deal with your addiction!

I'm not in a position to disqualify the OP from medical care or imply that the Op doesn't have a right to *all* medical care, or cause the
OP to fear she/he may not get full, healing medical care, because of something about the OP with which I disagree, disaprove or dislike.

Imagine telling John to seek medical care, after our compassionate example of what he may be met with.

From Zee...conversation with a friend....

Continuing from sci.med.cardiology http://groups.google.ca/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=& amp;ie=UTF-8&threadm=e5f4a9c2.0406051831.6408676f% 40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26q%3Dsci.med.cardiology%26meta%3D

The prescription, the pseudonyms, are the only difference. The
American pilots in Afghanistan that killed the Canadian troops were high on "go pills" which are dexidrine (amphetimine). But they can't be bad becaue they were PRESCRIBED, and called GO PILLS not SPEED.

This is what society does, they classify people by everything, even their drugof choice. The potheads, the junkies, the speedfreaks...the good folk with their 'drink', valium, benzodiazapines, anti-depressants. We have the moral majority and their favorite "drink" -- ethanol; notice ethanol is not called a drug it is a DRINK (for the taste only).

So, if a doctor prescribes it or injects it it is fine, if we self-medicate we are evil. Never mind that your father is an alcoholic only we don't call him that cause he's an oil exec and not passed out under the tree in the park.
Nah. He passes out at home after terrifying his kids.

John's a junky because he bought his drug on the street.. Mothers little helpers, back pills, nerve pills....I have heard them all used by the same people that talk about putting pot smokers in jail.
Anyway, moralizing is the privilege of the normals and the chosen. God loves a good and decent person. I know he must because he keeps trying to rid the world of all the rest of the people in the most gruesome and painful and seemingly arbitrary manner...

The moralizing is a byproduct of egotism and zenophobia.

Zee...continuing....conversation with a friend....

How is that poor guy making out with the holier than thous? Too bad he

is it?

I had to synthesize ritalin for (pharmaceutical co i worked with) so i am very familiar with it. The 'formula', meaning the number of atoms and types, is different and doesn't reflect the bio-activity anyway.
You are correct however in that they work on the same neuro-centers and are eagerly bought by the kids at school from the dx'd Addrs

Same effects...stimulation and release of endorphins. they (stimulants) have a calming effect on Addrs because they stimulate the inhibitory neuro'~s..ie, they put on the brakes, which seems paradoxical until you make that analogue.

Yes, rit~ and Dexedrine are enzymaticly similar. check out eroid vaults for more info.
http://www.erowid.org/ask/ask.cgi?ID=2846

Q: Is meth the same thing as Amphetamines such as prescription drugs like adderall and ritalin?

A: "Meth" is meth-amphetamine, which is a type of amphetamine. The
"meth" from Meth-amphetamine comes from the chemical name "methyl".
The chemical Methamphetamine is composed of an amphetamine molecule with an additional methyl group attached to its nitrogen (amine group). A methyl is one of the simplest atomic groups which can be added to a molecule: it is a single carbon atom with a set of (usually) 3 hydrogens.

Take a look at Chem Compare. If you look on the far right end on these images, you can see that there is a "NH-CH3" on the Methamphetamine where there is a "NH2" on the amphetamine. For many of the known psychoactives, adding a methyl group slightly alters the effects, duration, and/or potency. As you start to pay attention to other chemical names, you'll see "meth" show up in many names and this will almost always indicate that there is a methyl group on the molecule somewhere. For Methamphetamine, the methyl allows it a little better fat solubility and thus better penetration into the brain.

Adderall is simply a brand name for a particular mix of different
"stereoisomers" (same atoms connecting at the same places, just pointing in different directions in space at one point in the molecule) and salts of amphetamine. Take a look at the page describing
Adderall for a little more info about this.

Ritalin (methylphenidate) does contain an amphetamine-like backbone, however it is more complex. Take a look at the difference in
Chem-Compare. The additional structures on this molecule also alter its interaction with the body and the neurons in our brains.
Methylphenidate is reported to have less euphoric effects (some people describe it as 'more dull' than methamphetamine, but every individual is unique in their reaction to psychoactives, so no statement is universally true. While similar in backbone structure, amphetamine, methamphetamine, and ritalin are all quite unique drugs, with somewhat similar, but distinct, effects.

Another thing to note when talking about the differences in the amphetamine-class stimulants is that one of the strange effects of

entertainment media, government information, and school curricula.
Methamphetamine is particularly demonized, amphetamine somewhat less so, even though amphetamine-related stimulant drugs -- including methylphenidate (Ritalin), amphetamine (Adderall, Dexedrine), & methamphetamine (Desoxyn) -- are commonly prescribed for children from as young as age 3. All three of these can lead to difficult-to-break habits and can become a problem for some people who try them. But the marketing teams of the pharmaceutical companies do what they can to soothe parents' concerns by separating the image of street-speed users from the clean, clinical, healthy use of their products.

All of these substances are swallowed, snorted, smoked, and injected by users (in estimated order of frequency) and all can be dangerous in combinations with MAOIs, at high doses, or at high frequencies of use.

This is from a friend who has walked in your shoes:

"I am not an MD but I am fairly knowledgeable and offer this for you: I have never heard of this degree of impairment from just dextro unless it is interacting with the paxil which is quite likely. you know you have to quit and that is ...you know as well as I...HARD. but i think you know you have to do it or die. It takes a couple weeks to ten days for the first stage of 'normalization' so be patient if you can. I do suggest going to a doctor if you can though to make sure you are not on the verge of collapse of some kind. Maybe one of the drug NGs would be more apropo to see if other people ever had these symptoms.

Or is there

That is the hard part...do you die or do you confide? apparently some of the good people here decided to cast stones in spite of your brave call for help. They don't represent caring people so keep looking for a doctor that can help you determine if there is any serious condition that won't remit when you are finally able to get off the dex. you problably need some support to help you thru this. Can you contact one of the local outreach groups and ask for annonimity? They might be able to arrange a vist to a sympathetic doctor?

Yes, i suspect paxil may have saved your life by exacerbating your symptoms.
I thought about serotonin syndrome but the symptoms do not match yours. http://members.aol.com/atracyphd/syndrome.htm
Perhaps though you have a depletion of serotonin or a depletion of dopamine would be more likely but what ever the cause you know the answer...quit while you can. the lack of a caffiene response would indicate to me that you are indeed suffering a phyisiologic response due to imbalance of one or more neurotransmitters. Caffeine stimulates the release of C-Amp and secondarily the release of dopamine...the high from the energy boost... if you are not able to illicit a release of C-amp you have trouble that 'may' be temporary...you just have to wait for a few more days to see. then you have to wait a few months to see if you can regain a 'normal' state without stimulants, hard i know but you have shown your self the consequences of continuance.

how is your diet? you probably don't eat properly when you are high and may be suffering the lack of some essential vitamins and co-factors??? Try multi-vits and co-q10 along with a few days of vegetables and milk in your meals. It may sound trite but the furnace you stoke when you get the dexi-high burns up nutrients at an alarming rate....try it, it is cheap and no-one need know why, right?

you need support now....try to get it where you can.

sympatheticly, 'phew"

If you have any response to 'phew, John, that's a valid e-mail address above.

Our medical system gets sucked dry by people who CHOOSE to go on street corners and purchase addictive, illegal drugs. Sure, they may have a genetic propensity to addiction but they CHOOSE to take the drugs. The drugs were not imbedded on their cheek bones at birth. I guess it's just too hard to say NO hey? Well fella, I know a lot of people who are genetic addicts who do say no because they are using their time for other good causes! And we all know a healthy person can
CREATE an addiction if they opt to use a drug, some more so than others.

It pisses me off when I see children who are on transplant waiting lists, or who's medical benefits run out while they battle serious genetic cardiac conditions and then I see people who willfully and deliberately not only deceive others but take things into their bodies they should not just to "go with the gang" or "act cool" and that in turn ends up sucking financial resources dry that could be going to people who just simply say NO.

As well, LOTS of cardiac resources are used up on this type of patient above... the WILLFULL drug user. And in the next room is a child who we have to tell his parents...there's nothing we can do, there's just not enough resources.

As far as I'm concerned the nit wit can go fill out a kidney donation card and let's just see what happens. I can think of a handful of people who'd love to have all of his healthy organs. Sorry, my opinion.

I have held in my arms a young person so afflicted, terrified to sleep or close my eyes, or leave them alone long enough to shower, not knowing if I would wake or return to find them dead.

Where is John now? He came here for support and help.

Brave, brave young man.

Was he Jesus, Andrew?

If any kind fathers, uncles, brothers, anyone here, can offer John words of support and encouragement I beg you to please do so.

"I really have to try not to just tell people like you what I *really* think of you, but for now, I'll take the high road ... ."

"Now get yourself out of the gutter and get busy and start being honest... ."

Take this shit somewhere else.

Particularly, I think, the paxil drug use is prolematic. Health Canada has warned against this drug, and against all SSRIs, so has the FDA and the British regulatory body. Until recently the warnings were for children, then youth under 18. They are now for persons of any age including adults.

John has been using this unsafe drug for 5 years, since he was 17.

I question if the paxil use created the condition resulting in John's self-medicating with amphetamine.

And although there is no mention here of physcial harm, I would bet there is evidence of such in the information supressed by pharma prior to marketing of this drug.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/ 2004/2004_31.htm

Health Canada advises Canadians of stronger warnings for SSRIs and other newer anti-depressants

Emphasis Zee

OTTAWA - Health Canada is advising Canadians that all newer anti-depressant prescription drugs, known as Selective Serotonin
Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) or Serotonin Noradrenalin Re-uptake
Inhibitors (SNRIs), now carry stronger warnings. These new warnings indicate that *patients of all ages* taking these drugs may experience behavioural and/or emotional changes that may put them at *increased risk of self-harm* or harm to others.

The new warning for each of these drugs, which are listed below, appears in the information package received by patients and in the prescribing information available to health professionals.

*Patients, their families and caregivers* should note that a small number of patients taking drugs of this type may *feel worse instead of better*, particularly within the first few weeks of treatment or when doses are adjusted. For example, they may experience unusual feelings of agitation, hostility or anxiety, or have impulsive or disturbing thoughts that could involve self-harm or harm to others.

Be sure you live a perfect life, because the Sandy's of the world will decide there's something you've done somewhere, sometime, that disqualifies you from medical intervention.

John´s medical problems are of a complex nature as I see it. Blaming
Paxil only seems to be a very simplistic answer.

Any prescription or over-the-counter drug (even aspirin) can have negative side effects. And keep in mind that John´s doc had a reason to put him on Paxil. Why? We don´t know. Only John can tell us the story if he likes.

How do you argue, for example, about a nicotine addict who discovered that he developed lung cancer because of his cigarette addiction? Do you then blame Philipp Morris for the illness ?

You should go directly to a hospital emergency ward and havce yourself checked out.

I took the same amount of dexedrine as you while your age at university and was none the worst for it. 20-30mg is nothing much. That's the amount I was prescribed by the doctor at the school to treat my depression..

I suspect that your physical problems have little to do with the dexedrine. Something else is going on. The best thing you can do is to let medical science take a look at you and fix the problem.

Meanwhile, addiction to amphetamines is not physical. It's entirely mental. I'll bet you'll drop taking the little green and white pills as if they never existed, once you let competent doctors look you over.

I believe Michael, that John's initial amphetamine use was by prescription, and that a physician whose speciality this sort of thing is, thinks John's symptoms are owing to PAXIL, more likely than amphetamine. (However without examining him he is not sure of course).

Two prescription drugs.

It is even possible, in light of what we know now about Paxil, *that* causes his brain to be kinda scrambled. Negative information was suppressed in Paxil trials. What harm does this drug, this class of
PRESCRIPTION drugs, cause young brains? John was put on this drug when he was 17.

So. While judgements are being made and the holier than thou (never taken a drink, smoked a cigarette, eaten dessert, always exercised not too much or the wrong kind, certainly didn't cross the road, or otherwise engage in risky behaviour...and all of us here got our heart conditions etc for totally innocent reasons...and therefore get the stamp of approval...) decide who will and won't get medical treatment, or at least give it reluctantly grudgingly and with a dose of hatred... . And feel justified in doing so...

John and the Johns of the world died.

Because he took a prescription that got him hooked.

Because the drug he takes now, is for all intents and purposes, identical to the one the doctor wrote the prescription for.

Because he isn't an alcoholic instead, or a smoker, or a heart patient who has been a gourmand all his life, or....

Just being devil's advocate.

And drinking coffee while I write.

John don't beat yourself up over this and DON'T be affected by 19th century thinking and information on addiction: addiction is a physical illness like any other. You are not to blame for having any illness, whether it is heart disease or drug addiction. Get to your local emergency, as Bill has kindly and wisely suggested, where you will get immediate treatment and find informed and educated understanding. I can't stress enough, you have a physical illness. You are NOT in the gutter. This has nothing to do with choice, good or bad, anymore than having, for example, atrial fibrillation or hypercholesterolemia is a choice. Addiction is genetic, and physiological.

Clearly amphetamines are too dangerous to use

I don't know anything about this, but do you see any significant downside to seeing a Dr., perhaps at an ER, and getting his advice following an examination?

Sandy did not write "shit" here; his or her post and opinion about those many drug addicts in constant and ignorant denial is certainly very blunt, but legitimate and understandable to me.

I, myself, used to be a paramedic many years ago in Europe, have seen a lot, and we had to treat "drugies" on many occasions in the ambulance. One guy for instance, I believe he was only 22 years old, complained about chest pains while full of cocaine. His EKG printout on location was terrible and showed myocardial ischemia. This was very likely Prinzmetal Angina because of coronary spasm --- a serious condition. Of course, we did our best to prevent an MI on the way to the heart center in Munich. I did a follow-up on that guy and was informed that he was discharged from the hospital several days later, however, he returned to his "cool" friends to celebrate "cool" drug parties. His heart problem appeared not to become a wake-up call for him! Another ambulance had to deliver him to the ER again. As a consequence, my tolerance level towards "self-inflicted wound" patients who didn´t learn from their life threatening experiences and continued to abuse not only their bodies but also the not inexpensive health care system became very low. So I must second Sandy´s remarks which you vehemently opposed.

John, on the other hand, is a different case. He is aware of his condition and asks for opinions on smc to help him as his original and admirable post on this thread demonstrates. I hope he feels better by now.

I do realize that my problem escalated to insane selfishness and disregard for self and others. There's no explanation for continuing usage besides stupidity and, well, addiction.

My symptoms are not improving; however, i did go to a doctor (not the
ER) to get a check-up and the EKG was apparently fine, so was blood pressure. i dont understand what the hell is happening to me.
there's been no improvement yet

This is from a friend who has walked in your shoes:

"I am not an MD but I am fairly knowledgeable and offer this for you: I have never heard of this degree of impairment from just dextro unless it is interacting with the paxil which is quite likely. you know you have to quit and that is ...you know as well as I...HARD. but i think you know you have to do it or die. It takes a couple weeks to ten days for the first stage of 'normalization' so be patient if you can. I do suggest going to a doctor if you can though to make sure you are not on the verge of collapse of some kind. Maybe one of the drug NGs would be more apropo to see if other people ever had these symptoms.

Or is there

That is the hard part...do you die or do you confide? apparently some of the good people here decided to cast stones in spite of your brave call for help. They don't represent caring people so keep looking for a doctor that can help you determine if there is any serious condition that won't remit when you are finally able to get off the dex. you problably need some support to help you thru this. Can you contact one of the local outreach groups and ask for annonimity? They might be able to arrange a vist to a sympathetic doctor?

Yes, i suspect paxil may have saved your life by exacerbating your symptoms.
I thought about serotonin syndrome but the symptoms do not match yours. http://members.aol.com/atracyphd/syndrome.htm
Perhaps though you have a depletion of serotonin or a depletion of dopamine would be more likely but what ever the cause you know the answer...quit while you can. the lack of a caffiene response would indicate to me that you are indeed suffering a phyisiologic response due to imbalance of one or more neurotransmitters. Caffeine stimulates the release of C-Amp and secondarily the release of dopamine...the high from the energy boost... if you are not able to illicit a release of C-amp you have trouble that 'may' be temporary...you just have to wait for a few more days to see. then you have to wait a few months to see if you can regain a 'normal' state without stimulants, hard i know but you have shown your self the consequences of continuance.

how is your diet? you probably don't eat properly when you are high and may be suffering the lack of some essential vitamins and co-factors??? Try multi-vits and co-q10 along with a few days of vegetables and milk in your meals. It may sound trite but the furnace you stoke when you get the dexi-high burns up nutrients at an alarming rate....try it, it is cheap and no-one need know why, right?

you need support now....try to get it where you can.

sympatheticly, 'phew"

If you have any response to 'phew, John, that's a valid e-mail address above.

This is my husband. He doesn't know my name and doesn't remember marrying me.

He had a stroke in his sleep and fell into a coma. During this time he suffered several more strokes in different parts of his brain.

Had he been able to go to hospital when the symptoms first appeared, they may have been able to stop the stroke and if lucky, reverse some of the damage to the brain.

But he was too late.

These are old chats now, who knows what happened to John. Lets hope that even though all his symptoms were indicative of a STROKE, it wasn't. Second best scenario is that he gave up on the internet and went to seek Medical help.

The idea of someone not taking the opportunity to get help because they are hiding a drug problem is just tragic. Your life is worth a little bit of your pride to save yourself from a possibly permanent loss of dignity and independence.

I hope that you made it John

Poppy, I sitting here and reading this with goosebumps. Thank you so very much for placing this here. I hope with all my heart someone will be saved by your message. It is indeed downright stupid to ignore symptoms indicating a stroke CAN be forthcoming.

Which symptoms did your husband have?

I am so terribly sorry to hear he was having the stroke in his sleep and went into straight coma. I know that after having a stroke and receiving initial emergency medical treatment the effects of the stroke can be reversed for a great deal. So sorry to hear he never had that opportunity.

I wish you strength!!

Thanks Saskia. It is good to hear that you had such a response to my post......

I am not sure whether or not my husband was even conscious to notice the symptoms. Tragically, I was away at the time and was called by his employer who was concerned that he had not come to work.
I had alarm bells in my head straight away and organised a family member to check on him and they found him unconscious.

His lifestytle leading up to this has not been great. Years and years of drug abuse. In the week before it happened he had been on a 7 day amphetamine bender. It was when he crashed at the end that this happened.

If I was there...............

But there's no point thinking about what has already happened, I have to use all my strength to get through what we have NOW and make life the best it can be for both of us.

When I read Johns post, I immediately saw the symptoms of a stroke, the amphetamine use (street or prescription), the numbness, lack of motor control, problems with one side of the body, swallowing difficulties, irregular heartbeat, breathing difficulties. I simply could not believe that I was reading the words of someone who was almost certainly in danger or in the process of having a stroke.

Reading the subsequent posts made me so anxious. So many people guessing what MIGHT be wrong (at least they encouraged medical help) and then all this useless argument over John’s lifestyle. It was tragic to read the judgmental moralizing of people who clearly have no concept of the nature of addiction. Addiction can happen to anyone – it is a horrible affliction that takes incredible mental strength and the support of others to recover from.

A person that does so called ‘bad’ things like abusing drugs is NOT a bad PERSON, they have simply made some decisions that weren’t great. It does not make a person less intelligent, morally bankrupt or useless to society. Many people caught in the web of addiction have much to offer the world. Was John F Kennedy a waste of space? How about Winston Churchill? Was he stupid? Did Van Gogh contribute nothing worthwhile to the art world? Anyway, I am not trying to fuel that argument.

If you came upon a car crash and had the opportunity to save a dying person – would you walk away because you saw a packet of cigarettes in the car? would you say “Oh well, they deserve to die because they aren’t living a healthy life anyway”.

John, I have no idea what happened to you as your post was over a year ago and it seems you never posted again……….I really hope that you were able to get the help and support you need, to live your life to its full potential.

I have to agree with all you said, Poppy. I also will never judge or accuse drug addicts (or alcoholics). Nor will I accuse people having ended up in a "life-style" that's not conform the "normative" one. There are so many reasons one can 'slip' one time and get hooked and drift away further and further from this 'acceptable' pattern of life, because life isn't always that easy on everyone.

We say "to save a life is like saving the world" and that's exactly what I think.

"If I was there...." - well, if it happened in his sleep you probably wouldn't have noticed until the next morning anyway, wouldn't you? It's sad but, that is what I think would have happened.

I don't know what happened to John.. I wasn't at the forum that time - I, together with you, hope he is alright and got the medical attention in time to either prevent or exclude a stroke